On the 23rd September 1974, I started my railway career which was to last for over 40 years. It was only a week since I had had my successful interview the works general offices (GO) Crewe Works. I was now an Engineering Apprentice. Travel was on the East Coast Main Line from my family home in Stevenage into King’s Cross. Next, I walked past St Pancras to Euston station. Here I caught the 09:00 service to Carlisle. Arrival at Crewe was just after 11 o’clock and around fifteen minutes later, I arrived at the general offices. After being introduced John Evans, the Works Training Manager, I was taken to the apprentice training school. Here I was welcomed by Ernest Cope, the chief instructor and head of the training school. I was kitted out with green Apprentice overalls and shown around the school.
History
The Crewe Works Apprentice Training School was built in 1951 following the success of the first training school at Derby Locomotive Works in 1946. In the early 1930s, the railways realized that overhauling locomotives required a high level of skill. They needed skilled craftsman and thus appropriate apprentice training facilities. The Crewe Works Apprentice Training School was built on the site of the old railway carriage works. The main line to Holyhead separated it from the main Works site. Some years later, the Crewe Electric Traction Depot was built on the other side of the Apprentice Training School.
Initial Training
Turning section in the Training school. Note also the single span roof.
The main workshop area inside the school was huge and a single span roof covered the whole area. Sections included fitting workstations lathes milling and shaping machines. For the first six months, all apprentices spent time at each section learning the different skills and helping to guide them towards a craft they enjoyed.
My first section was sheet metal fabrication section. The instructor was Mr Wright. The task was to produce a toolbox with cantilevered top sections. I still use it today!
Toolbox made by me in the Crewe Locomotive Works Apprentice Training School in 1974
This was my first foray into measuring and cutting sheet steel following an engineering drawing. The instructors emphasized the old guiding principle of measure twice cut once. Incorrect cutting was clearly a waste. We also had to learn how to fold metal and drill and rivet together. It was certainly a great introduction to fabrication skills that I’ve used many times over the years.
Sheet metal section where I made my toolbox
A little rant!
Now I have to have a little rant so please bear with me. In society, there exists a snobbery that I detest. Some people those who work with their hands are in some way of a lower order. I have known someone to proudly show off an item of furniture made by Chesterfield and state how fine it is yet they look down on the craftsmen who made it! They seem to think they are superior in some way yet they don’t have the skill to work with their own hands. Very muddled thinking in my view!! There are places in this world for all with different skills be they practical, academic or a mixture of both.
Shovel made by me in Crewe Locomotive Works Training School in 1974
Training at Crewe Works.
Once all of our section had completed their toolbox, we made a shovel. a tundish and an oil jug before we moved on to the fitting section. We were presented with a rusty square section of bar and a drawing of a hand clamp. Tools provided were a metal file, a micrometer, flat plate, engineers blue and a set square.
We were told to file the rusty bar until all surfaces were 80% flat and within so many thousands of an inch of the dimensions shown in the drawing. Of course, the size also had to be a perfect right angle. The idea was that you would file it and then at certain point you would apply engineers blue. Next we would rub it on the perfect metal surface to identify the highlights then file accordingly. Once this had been achieved, ends had to be bevelled before the bar was cut to length to make up the actual vice jaws.
The picture below shows the finished work but you will note it has a handle along with other items.
Hand vices, punch and chiesel made by me in Crewe Locomotive Works Training School in 1975
Next, we moved to the lathe section where the handle was machined. While on the lathe we also produced punches and a small cold chisel. When a sufficient batch of the chisels and punches had been made, two apprentices took them into the main Works where they were heat treated to harden them off. Wearing green overalls that clearly singled you out as an apprentice or rookie in the Works made you ‘fair game’. Apart from friendly banter, you would get nuts and washers thrown at you if you strayed into a workshop.
Lectures
The Chief Instructor and Head of the Apprentice Training School when I was there, Ernest Cope picture giving a lecture.
As well as practical training in the school there were lectures in the. Classrooms. On a number of occasions, we had a great guy called Bob Shilton. Bob owned an ancient Series One Landrover which had done many thousands of miles yet was immaculate and ran smoothly. Bob was an engineer after all! For those railway people reading this, Bob was a professional and technical Grade C which was the forward runner what became a Senior Technical Officer (SDO). He was appointed during the 1960s when the Grade came with the benefit of First Class travel.
Bob taught me about the principles of diesel locomotive engineering. I remember him saying that an English Electric Class 40 engine is in a V formation with each piston having a one-foot diameter and a one-foot stroke. Class 40s are a comparatively simple Loco which is not a criticism. They were, and indeed in the heritage section still remain, a reliable Loco which because of its simplicity allows a young engineer to learn the basics quickly. This helped enormously when I went on to acquaint myself with the more complex Class 47 with all its subclass variance.
After six months in the training school, it was time for the craft apprentices to decide which trade they wish to pursue.
Entrance hall to Apprentice Training School. Through the entrance doors on the left and through the double doors furthest from camera into the common room where you could eat your packed lunch.
HST Model
The five engineering apprentices, namely Phil Robinson Mike Taylor Graham Morgan Stephen Chadwick and myself, worked with an instructor called Norman Powell. Our project was to build a scale model of the high-speed train power car. The erecting shop in the main Works had just started building full-sized versions. The cab was considered too complex for the apprentices so this was made by Norman’s expert hands. It was even painted. Originally the colour scheme was black over yellow, the colours of the production version. Some of you may not be aware but the first production power car was painted in this scheme. It never left the Works instead it was repainted in the more familiar blue over yellow. I remember seeing it in the Works yard outside of the traction shop probably when I was taking punches and chisels for heat treatment.
There were strict rules when walking through the main Works to and from the training school. You weren’t allowed to go into the workshops without authority. I remember the superintendent of the fabrication shop Dennis Dooley being particularly stern with unauthorised entry to his workshop. He was best avoided!
The two entrances to the Training School. Apprentices straight on at far end while visitors and staff entered via the doors nearest the camera on the right. The building on the left was the gym.
Moving On
The first year in the training school appeared to whizz by. There was day release on Wednesdays and two night classes during the week. I was studying for an Ordinary National Certificate in engineering as well as an O level in technical drawing. I hadn’t been able to do TD at school because it clashed with my other subjects. Fortunately, I only had to do this for a year so I dropped back to one night class in my second year.
In the 1980s, Crewe Locomotive Works Training School was demolished and the site is now barren. I still retain happy memories of the time and friends I made along with the skills I learnt. My next move was into the main Works where I had to somehow ditch those green overalls!
Did you work at Crewe Works or the Apprentice School? I’d love to hear your memories.
I have a full PowerPoint present about the training school. We were the starters of 1977 and we’ve had a few reunions. If you’d like a copy of the presentation, please drop me a line.
Hi Dave, that is a very kind offer, thank you, I would love a copy. Did you prepare the presentation? Are you still in the rail industry? Best wishes
I remember you I went electrical didn’t do too well on the fitting section
Enjoyed the year in there
Hi Nigel, I remember you too. Great to hear from you. Have I got the correct name for the instructor who was on the sheet metal section. I seem to remember he was on loan from the Brass Finishing Shop. How long did you stay in the Works after finishing your apprenticeship?
hi you dont happen to remember a Brian Mason who was an apprentice between 1969-1974? he was my dad any info if you have it would be great
I’m sorry, I don’t. Hopefully someone else can help you
I would love to find any info on the 1966 intake
I was told many years ago that the photographs of apprentices were burnt. Allegedly because no one wanted them!! How true all of this is I can’t say. Very sad if this was the case Alan.
Reply from Dave Windsor
Alan were you on Kestevens job fitting water tanks, with John **** a dabber?
No Don’t recall I was eventually left the training school as an apprentice electrician the only names I recall are Nigel ? big tall feller nicknamed tinny and Ron Sandland who I have since been in touch with and met up with
I missed the Sept. intake as a craft apprentice, so went as a office boy Pattern shop from Sept 61- Jan62, first section was smithy great starting the hearth on those cold wintery mornings, I think Swingler? was in charge and chrome dome his deputy both watching us thru the fish bowl windows, Bob Chilton was great always interesting, then for maths “ubbers and ulers” short tongued, I was shorted for fitting/turning but went on model making with Powell for 3-6months building the Bayer Garrett, what ever happened to those models? Britannia was in the workshop and several others upstairs in the library…I entered the works into the machine shop, arcade, tender shop, 9 shop, south shop, 10 shop then come out of my time as a fitter in 10 shop.
Thanks Dave for sharing your memories. Was Reg Partridge the Superintendent of 10 Shop when you came out of your time? How long were you in the Works.
always wondered what happened to the models we built I remember working on the
bayer garrett never saw it completed our group sealed a list of our mane inside the
rotating coal bunker.john preedy
hello barry i was talking to mikeaitchison a short while ago he mentiond your name i knew it from 1974 training school you gave me and my mate a lift to stevenage then we go a train to south end to see u.f.o then met you again for home trip my mate worked for r.r. at the time so made cheap travel for him i remember you well all tha best stevedodd
Hi Steve, great to hear from you. I think I gave you guys a lift in my Ford Cortina. Did you see I mentioned you in one of my Blogs about Crewe Works. Your band is still going strong then. I remember Mike bringing in a recording of a rock band to Dane Bank College. After he played it he said to me what did I think. I replied I thought it was brilliant. Who was it I asked. It’s Us he said. Not heard of them said I. No he said it’s us, Doddie and the boys! See you’re that good.
Nigel Breeze has been in contact with me too. Really good to be back in touch with you after guys after all these years. Best wishes.
hi railwayblogger,
he might have been, I knew him off days always dapper… but I was on regular nights only saw the super if in on o/t sundays. Harry Preston I remember most, that’s where a face like thunder originated…I took my redundancy in March 1988 with 27yrs under my belt.
regards,
dave…
Fantastic read.
Lovely to read this. I remember Ernie Cope and Bob Shilton well, also Knocker Powell, Mr Ollerhead (fitting), Reg Edge (fabrication), and Bennet (turning). I started in 1980, and had a good year there before heading off to the works. Ended up on Diesel Test A shift where I enjoyed 2 years before going into the merchant navy. Great days in that training school. It’s demise was criminal.
Very grateful to get a copy of that presentation if its still available.
Hi Roy, very glad you have enjoyed reading my ramblings. Thank you for coming up with more names of the instructors in the Training School. As I read them I instantly remembered their faces. Do you remember Dave Sproson from the Diesel Test?
Hi all, if I have found the correct site, I started at the school Jan 1958, and went on to become a centre lathe turner, and on a capstan as a punishment:))). Stoke is my home, and longport was my station, and I used a free pass to go to london(via our loop line), to see Brian Rix at the theatre.
Hi Francis, you’ve certainly found the right site in terms of corresponding with someone who has been writing about his memoirs of his time in Crewe Works in the 1970’s.
When you travelled to Crewe Works did you go by train and alight at the staff only halt for the works alongside the Training School?
Did you spend all of your career in the works?
Best wishes
Barrie
Hello again, I travelled to the school by the steam train that did Derby to Crewe passenger, and then travelled to the school. At knocking off time, the journey was revesed. I ended my school days as a fitter and turner, but needed to leave in1960 due to my wedding, the pay of a bound apprentice was rather low. My first job in the works was a hammer and chisel
in the smoke box, cutting nuts off!!, but other memories survive, white limestone painted on con-rods, collecting wages from the window, the little 3 wheelers carrying parts, and many more. My time in the works was Jan 1958 until end of 1960. P.S. A name if he is still around Brian Hauser.
Hi Barry think back to mrs tews b&b remember the welsh dude that’s me Arthur Owen I remember you well remember the time we were stopped by police with on the back of your bike we ended up in court find memories now living in Australia been here since 96 anyway nice to read your blog regards arthur
Hi Arthur, great to hear from you. Indeed I remember you very well in fact we were in Bangor last July and I thought of you and wondered if you were still there. I also remember the bike incident but not the bit about going to court. We were stopped by a policeman who I happened to know and he let us off. It was White and green Lambretta we were on! Do you remember my old Mini that I bought from a bloke in the works. You left the works just after you completed your apprenticeship and went back to Bangor. Yep fond memories. Cheers mate, Barrie
hi cockney rebel steve dodd here just read a message to you from arthur owen about life a t mrs. tew`s went to bangor his home town with him before we got on the train we had to purchase at arthurs insistence an old ladies hat each 10p met his dad and pepe the dog great days please pass this message to him cos i dont know how to it would be so good to meet again steve_dodd@live.co.uk
I joined BR in 1966 as an S&T Engineering Student. We had to do 4 months in the school which I did September – December 1967. We didn’t have to do the classroom work as we were on ONC at Dane Bank. I think Ernie Cope became head whilst I was there as the man who was head of training in the Old Works offices died suddenly.
I remember Ray Edge on sheet metal and still have the toolbox although the shovel succumbed to years of daily use by my parents. The hand vice, one of those multi-holed clamping plates, measuring calipers, chisel, nail punch, centre punch and screwdriver are still in the toolbox.
Hi,
I was there in 1964 and entered the Works as an apprentice Millwright in 1965. In the workshops at the Training School were: Mr. Jones, Electrical, Mr. Bennet, Turning, Major Ashley Blacksmithing and Moulding, Reg edge, Plating, Toby Powel, Tinsmithing, Ken Ollerhead, Fitting and Vince Bailey, Carpentry.
Upstairs were the lecturers: Mr. Jones, English and P.E., Mr. Cope, Drawing, Doc brown, Social Studies, Mr Handford, Science, Mr. Buchan, Science and someone “doing” Maths – made such an impression I cannot remember his name! Mr. Stahl was in charge and the lovely Mrs. Simpson was in the office.
There is a group that has a photograph of this year group but can’t remember his name.
Great to read so many interesting “snippets”.
Hi I was a app 1970 in the training school. What ever happened to the holyhead lads that were there ..they came to the works every year as far as I can remember. What a shame the school was not saved it would have made a great museum for training and lock history.
Stewy.
Hi my name is Willy Bowden I was an app in training school , intake 1970 August the 10th 07-55 never forget it great times was anyone on this site in the school 1970 intake. I remember all the instructors you have mentioned.
Enjoyed reading people’s comments.
Willy Bowden.
Hello
My grandfahter SILAS ALLEN was an apprentice at the Crewe Works, Cabinetry Section in 1897. He ultimately became a well-known cabinet-maker in Crewe. I realise this is well before your time, but does anyone have any pointers for me where I might find further information about this time and the apprenticeship system in the early 20th century? I live in New Zealand, so can’t pop over unfortunately. Kind regards, Libby Urbahn