Over the years, many people have told me that they should get a refund if no train seat is available. I try to explain that a train ticket is for a journey and not a seat. I usually get a tirade back along the lines of ‘this is outrageous!’ and ‘why can’t they add another carriage? ‘. They would not have bought a ticket if they knew they would not get a train seat. They want to know how to get a seat on the train.
What’s the problem?
The fact is that train travel, like the buses, is a ‘walk up and go’ anytime form of travel. This is unlike both the airlines and coach travel where it is compulsory to book a seat. You can’t stand up in a plane. The railway has to try to predict the passenger loadings and provide a train with sufficient seats to meet that demand. People would complain if they couldn’t get on the train because all the seats were booked and thus there will always be a ‘walk up’ culture on the railways.
What are the train operators doing about this?
Train operators try to plan the length of trains within fixed formation limitations eg a high-speed train usually has eight coaches. They have to also take into account the frequency of services to meet passenger demands. Demand is hard to predict as tickets can be purchased right up until almost the moment the train leaves the station. Train operators take counts on board of the number of passengers using their trains. Technology on modern trains automatically counts the number of passengers. This data helps with planning to minimise overloading.
As part of train planning, companies try ensure no-one is standing for more than 20 minutes on each service. This is known as the ’20 minute standing rule’ by train planners. If there is extra demand due to a special event eg Glastonbury Festival, train companies will move rolling stock from other parts of the network with less demand. If these predictions are wrong then this can cause overcrowding in other areas. Train companies really want to meet passenger expectations and provide enough train seats. However train operators do not have spare rolling stock just waiting to be used in the same way people do not keep a spare car at home ‘just in case’. In my experience, people who have chosen a railway career are passionate about making the railway succeed. Since privatisation 20 years ago, more people are travelling by rail than ever. The number of trains provided now is far greater than that offered at the time of British Rail on almost the same network.
My tips on how to get a train seat
Your ticket entitles you to a journey and not a seat. If you want a seat, you can check to see if you can reserve one at the time you buy your ticket. This is free of charge. On long distance trains, most of the seats can be reserved. Buying tickets online through TrainGenius customers can save up to 80% on the price of their ticket, compared with buying at the station on the day of travel and they offer free seat reservations at the time that you purchase your ticket.
‘Walk up and go’ passengers should find one carriage which is not reserved. Another tip is to check the reservation tickets on unoccupied seats. Sometimes that portion of the journey has passed or the passenger has not turned up for the reservation and the seat can be used. You can always check this with the on board staff. Don’t be afraid to politely ask other passengers to move luggage off seats. You can even ask train staff to make an announcement to this effect.
Taking a train past Carnforth recently, I was interested to see a LOT of carriages in the ‘West Coast Railways’ livery sitting on sidings. I wonder if train companies ever approach this or similar companies to use its stock when a problem is emerging; the stock seems only to be used for West Coast’s own specials – which seems a missed opportunity for everybody.
Good point. Train Companies have hired loco hauled stock and I’m sure much more could be done. There are though numerous reasons why such vehicles are not used. For example reintroduction of slam door stock and the lack of suitable main line diesel locomotives to haul them. Remember apart from the few Class 67’s and 68’s there hasn’t been a main line passenger diesel loco built en-masse since the Class 50 in 1968. I’m not offering these as excuses but they are major considerations. Loco hauling was seen as expensive and the industry went over to fixed formation which personally I’m not keen on Especially with underfloor engines. It’s worth saying that once a fixed formation exceeds 5 vehicles all with underfloor engines the economics tip in favour of loco hauling. Chiltern Railways are in the lead on this with Mark3 coaches (with retro fitted plug doors) + DVT + Class 68.
Blimey I expected some really great ideas about getting a seat. This article doesn’t say anything that any intelligent person couldn’t write.
It also does not cover the fact that (a) someone might be sitting in your reserved seat- and the train is so full, you cannot report it to staff so have to deal with it yourself- or give up and (b) some trains are so full you cannot move along the train to your (probably filled) reserved seat.
Hi Jon, sounds like you are clued up with the main tricks for getting a seat – do you know any more tips I haven’t thought of?
With regards to overcrowding, I agree this is a problem if you are trying to get along the train to your reserved seat. I did blog about overcrowding and an idea I had to alleviate some of it if you want to take a read: http://railwayblogger.com/flexible-rolling-stock/
Thanks for sharing your advice & tips. Regards, Alastair Majury
Just because they are selling the journey and not a seat doesnt mean it isn’t ridiculous…. theres no other words to describe spending £200 on a ticket for a 2 hour journey and having to stand. Ive only got the train a couple of times, nothing made it clear ur not guaranteed a seat. Yes the small print might of but its a deal breaker for me, it should be made obvious at least…. life comes with certain expections and paying £200 for a “journey” and the idea standing for that 2 hours wouldn’t even cross my mind as a potenal issue….should guarantee you a seat or refund….. or make tickets a realstic price and a very clear warming you may have to stand….
I’ve been living in Germany for a bit over 10 years now. The train system here is like what you mentioned here, “Your ticket entitles you to a journey and not a seat”.
I’ve been watching some videos about the some high speed rails in Asia, where the ticket entitles you to journey and seat. I’m wondering if you know of a table somewhere, where someone had made a table or page containing like which railways do “Your ticket entitles you to a journey and not a seat” and which do “”Your ticket entitles you to a journey and a seat”.
Thanks!
Hi, I don’t know of where anyone may have made such a listing sorry. As I say trains unlike airlines for example are walk up so train companies won’t know how many are turning up to travel on a particular train. As you probably know cheaper fares are quota controlled by the train companies so are sold with a seat reservation plus there is usually a completely unreserveable carriage in the train to cater for walk up passengers on the day. Best wishes.